Comments on: How Is This Becoming So One-Sided? http://thepewterplank.com/2011/03/14/how-is-this-becoming-so-one-sided/ A Tampa Bay Buccaneers Fan Site - News, Blogs, Opinion and more. Thu, 11 Apr 2013 15:02:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.1 By: ToddO http://thepewterplank.com/2011/03/14/how-is-this-becoming-so-one-sided/comment-page-1/#comment-2888 ToddO Tue, 15 Mar 2011 19:35:02 +0000 http://thepewterplank.com/?p=4082#comment-2888 Not at all....was going to say the same to you....I have one of those motivational pics with 'Passion' on it. Sometimes I can't help myself. I completely understand the players don't want to give up a thing. Unfortunately, I think they know they got too much last time. Gene Upshaw said on his death bed to never ever give a thing back. He knew that as revenues increased that 2/3's of the pie would also skyrocket. I guess having been in management I find it hard to side with labor. My mother is a union rep and would probably kill me but I still believe that the owners have every right to make as much as they can(the players too) but in the end....if they want 15% margins....well, that's their prerogative. That's why they are the boss and everyone works for them. If the players do not like it....retire or go elsewhere. That partnership thing was bad from the start....no one gives their partners 2/3 of the pie. Those players are replaceable....they are a commodity. Their hubris disgusts me. Unions have outlived their purpose and single handedly destroyed Detroit and the domestic car industry. Some dude with a HS diploma making $60/hr to install windshield wipers was INSANE and unsustainable. The players making 59.6% of all revenues moving forward was unsustainable. I enjoy a good debate. Thank you for the outlet and return volleys. Have a good one..... Not at all….was going to say the same to you….I have one of those motivational pics with ‘Passion’ on it. Sometimes I can’t help myself. I completely understand the players don’t want to give up a thing. Unfortunately, I think they know they got too much last time. Gene Upshaw said on his death bed to never ever give a thing back. He knew that as revenues increased that 2/3′s of the pie would also skyrocket. I guess having been in management I find it hard to side with labor. My mother is a union rep and would probably kill me but I still believe that the owners have every right to make as much as they can(the players too) but in the end….if they want 15% margins….well, that’s their prerogative. That’s why they are the boss and everyone works for them. If the players do not like it….retire or go elsewhere. That partnership thing was bad from the start….no one gives their partners 2/3 of the pie. Those players are replaceable….they are a commodity. Their hubris disgusts me. Unions have outlived their purpose and single handedly destroyed Detroit and the domestic car industry. Some dude with a HS diploma making $60/hr to install windshield wipers was INSANE and unsustainable. The players making 59.6% of all revenues moving forward was unsustainable.

I enjoy a good debate. Thank you for the outlet and return volleys. Have a good one…..

]]> By: Patrik Nohe http://thepewterplank.com/2011/03/14/how-is-this-becoming-so-one-sided/comment-page-1/#comment-2887 Patrik Nohe Tue, 15 Mar 2011 16:21:22 +0000 http://thepewterplank.com/?p=4082#comment-2887 Todd, you aren't actually listening to any of the concessions I made in the article. I said that yes the players are at fault, yes in an earlier comment I mentioned player costs are rising and it will need to eventually be addressed. And I agree, money will end up being given back. I never said the players aren't going to have to take less next deal. I've written entire articles on that. I just said they were within their rights to go to the courts and I don't think they should be faulted for it. My point is just it's difficult to say the owners were within their rights to opt out, but the players didn't have the right to do anything about it. They both had different tactics at their disposal, so why is one at fault for taking advantage of that and the other is well within their rights? I haven't seen nearly as many people come down on the owners for financially planning a lock-out strategy that would bring 4.5 bil in TV revenues and sustain the league for a year, even without football. But the fact the players were always going to go to the courts is a huge issue. This article wasn't intended to say the players are right. In fact it says like five times both sides are wrong and deserve some blame. The point was this isn't all or even mostly the players fault. This has a lot more to do with the owners than public perception seems to admit right now. And as for 100,000-150,000 not being middle class, based on what? The way the US government taxes (and yes I am from America, click my bio and you'll see I'm from Florida) any family making 250k or less is middle class. And while a lot of companies trimmed fat, was that fat trimmed at the lower levels of the company or did it come out of the big executive salaries at the top end? I've been laid off a few times in the past couple years. Believe me, I get it. As I said in the article, the players also deserve fault. I never said, don't blame the players. I just said don't side with the owners. That's a point I maintain. Fans don't owe the owners a single thing, they don't owe the players a single thing either, but especially not the owners. And both sides need to realize without the fans, they don't even have business interests to hurt in the first place. I'm not trying to fight with you, I honestly appreciate the discussion. Hope you're not getting heated, I'm just enjoying the debate. Todd, you aren’t actually listening to any of the concessions I made in the article. I said that yes the players are at fault, yes in an earlier comment I mentioned player costs are rising and it will need to eventually be addressed. And I agree, money will end up being given back. I never said the players aren’t going to have to take less next deal. I’ve written entire articles on that. I just said they were within their rights to go to the courts and I don’t think they should be faulted for it. My point is just it’s difficult to say the owners were within their rights to opt out, but the players didn’t have the right to do anything about it. They both had different tactics at their disposal, so why is one at fault for taking advantage of that and the other is well within their rights?

I haven’t seen nearly as many people come down on the owners for financially planning a lock-out strategy that would bring 4.5 bil in TV revenues and sustain the league for a year, even without football. But the fact the players were always going to go to the courts is a huge issue.

This article wasn’t intended to say the players are right. In fact it says like five times both sides are wrong and deserve some blame. The point was this isn’t all or even mostly the players fault. This has a lot more to do with the owners than public perception seems to admit right now.

And as for 100,000-150,000 not being middle class, based on what? The way the US government taxes (and yes I am from America, click my bio and you’ll see I’m from Florida) any family making 250k or less is middle class. And while a lot of companies trimmed fat, was that fat trimmed at the lower levels of the company or did it come out of the big executive salaries at the top end? I’ve been laid off a few times in the past couple years. Believe me, I get it.

As I said in the article, the players also deserve fault. I never said, don’t blame the players. I just said don’t side with the owners. That’s a point I maintain. Fans don’t owe the owners a single thing, they don’t owe the players a single thing either, but especially not the owners. And both sides need to realize without the fans, they don’t even have business interests to hurt in the first place. I’m not trying to fight with you, I honestly appreciate the discussion. Hope you’re not getting heated, I’m just enjoying the debate.

]]> By: ToddO http://thepewterplank.com/2011/03/14/how-is-this-becoming-so-one-sided/comment-page-1/#comment-2886 ToddO Tue, 15 Mar 2011 15:35:49 +0000 http://thepewterplank.com/?p=4082#comment-2886 Let's be real here Pat, I'll wager any amount you want that the players end up giving back some money in the end. Then I'll wager that not one single player leaves or quits because of it. Why? Deep down they know they are making hand over fist. When we had to roll back commissions at my old job....it was around a 7-8% cut back....guess what? Not one single employee left. Why? They knew that still had it good but the company wasn't making enough money. No one said "prove it". They dealt and moved on. This is REAL life. Squeezing? LOL!!!! You call a $4.8 BILLION DOLLAR POOL SQUEEZING???? BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! How anyone would side with the players is beyond me. YOU sir are in a huge minority right now. Polls everywhere back that up. You keep crying about all these profits....show me. And why do you refuse to comment on the owners growing costs and expenses ONLY coming out of there slice of the pie????? This is the third time I am asking you about. WHy should the players be completely sheltered from all costs and increased costs????? I use GB because they have transparency and a rabid fanbase. They sell a ton of merchandise/concessions/tix/etc. You dismiss it almsot as an anomaly but I'd wager AGAIN that its more the norm than not. Yes, you have a select few making money but as a whole, they aren't doing as well as you claim. If the contract was so great to the owners why would they opt out? Because its so profitable???? In the words of ESPN....COME ON MAN...... I was implying if it wasn't for football, a large % of the NFLPA would be doing something much different. Instead of counting their blessings, they have this huge sense of enititlement. Almost like the league is THEM, players are replaced every single year....let me ask you a very simple question....when Brady and Manning leave the game is the NFL going to close up shop? Why? B/c of the game.....people watch the game. Stars make it more interesting but let's be real again for a sec....those fans in GB or DC or Dallas will go regardless. Many fans are fans of the team, of the game...new stars will emerge. Last but not least, not sure what country you live in but companies trimmed the fat everywhere over the few years. Middle class? I do not consider people making $100,000-$150,000 middle class. You may mean middle managers/execs/vps but hardly middle class. I was specifically talking about Reagan replacing all the Air Traffic Controllers...he broke them in one fell swoop. Bottom line are you honestly going to sit here and say the players can't make do with $4 billion instead of $5 billion? Seriously? Let’s be real here Pat, I’ll wager any amount you want that the players end up giving back some money in the end. Then I’ll wager that not one single player leaves or quits because of it. Why? Deep down they know they are making hand over fist. When we had to roll back commissions at my old job….it was around a 7-8% cut back….guess what? Not one single employee left. Why? They knew that still had it good but the company wasn’t making enough money. No one said “prove it”. They dealt and moved on. This is REAL life.

Squeezing? LOL!!!! You call a $4.8 BILLION DOLLAR POOL SQUEEZING???? BUWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! How anyone would side with the players is beyond me. YOU sir are in a huge minority right now. Polls everywhere back that up. You keep crying about all these profits….show me. And why do you refuse to comment on the owners growing costs and expenses ONLY coming out of there slice of the pie????? This is the third time I am asking you about. WHy should the players be completely sheltered from all costs and increased costs????? I use GB because they have transparency and a rabid fanbase. They sell a ton of merchandise/concessions/tix/etc. You dismiss it almsot as an anomaly but I’d wager AGAIN that its more the norm than not. Yes, you have a select few making money but as a whole, they aren’t doing as well as you claim.

If the contract was so great to the owners why would they opt out? Because its so profitable???? In the words of ESPN….COME ON MAN……

I was implying if it wasn’t for football, a large % of the NFLPA would be doing something much different. Instead of counting their blessings, they have this huge sense of enititlement. Almost like the league is THEM, players are replaced every single year….let me ask you a very simple question….when Brady and Manning leave the game is the NFL going to close up shop? Why? B/c of the game…..people watch the game. Stars make it more interesting but let’s be real again for a sec….those fans in GB or DC or Dallas will go regardless. Many fans are fans of the team, of the game…new stars will emerge.

Last but not least, not sure what country you live in but companies trimmed the fat everywhere over the few years. Middle class? I do not consider people making $100,000-$150,000 middle class. You may mean middle managers/execs/vps but hardly middle class. I was specifically talking about Reagan replacing all the Air Traffic Controllers…he broke them in one fell swoop.

Bottom line are you honestly going to sit here and say the players can’t make do with $4 billion instead of $5 billion? Seriously?

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